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roger
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 54
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 Posted: October 02 2009 Post subject: |
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dizzyland here is the link fo rthe free smaple:
http://www.chitogenics.net/forcesleep_lander/?SSAID=171275
Well last night i tried klonopin for the first time (with my usualy L tryptophan dose) and slept DEEP for 6.5 hours. I feel more refreshed today than I have in a long time. No disrespect Moss, I know you are very knowledgable on the subject, but I feel great today, that's all.
I fully understand that the dangers begin if I take it every night, but I don't plan on it. My Tryptophan works relatively well.
I'm still a bit confused as to why you think I will not be able to use it responsibly? ie. - only on nights (catastophic Sundays, etc) when my mind is RACING and therefore I cannot fall asleep.
This is the only reason my doc prescribed it for me. Not for everyday use.
Thanks. I just want to learn as much as possible about what I'm putting in my body, and the long term effects of it all. |
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mosspa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 489
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| Posted: October 02 2009 Post subject: |
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Will somebody who has Force Sleep please post the ingredient list (with amounts) here.
Moss |
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roger
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 54
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| Posted: October 02 2009 Post subject: |
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Proprietary Blend: 85 mg
Doxylamine Succinate *
Melatonin *
Valerian Extract *
L-Glutamine *
L-Arginine *
L-Glycine *
L-Ornithine *
L-Lysine *
DL-Phenylalanine *
5HTP *
Grape Seed Extract *
Specific amounts not shown.. |
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mosspa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 489
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| Posted: October 02 2009 Post subject: |
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| roger wrote: | Proprietary Blend: 85 mg
Doxylamine Succinate *
Melatonin *
Valerian Extract *
L-Glutamine *
L-Arginine *
L-Glycine *
L-Ornithine *
L-Lysine *
DL-Phenylalanine *
5HTP *
Grape Seed Extract *
Specific amounts not shown.. |
I believe that this is illegal. The product description of a food supplement must reveal what, and how much of anything that is considered part of the active ingredients is included in each 'serving'. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.
Moss |
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tzatke
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 26
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| Posted: October 02 2009 Post subject: |
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| Moss, thanks for your suggestion re the chloral hydrate. Unfortunately it is a schedule 4 drug here and my docs won't write it. And I can't drink because it really sets the interstitial cystitis symptoms going. I'd be up all night in pain. And oh, how I miss that cold beer in the summer and the champagne cocktail at brunch. Secret of a good champagne cocktail is brown sugar instead of white. |
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mosspa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 489
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| Posted: October 03 2009 Post subject: |
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| tzatke wrote: | | Moss, thanks for your suggestion re the chloral hydrate. Unfortunately it is a schedule 4 drug here and my docs won't write it. And I can't drink because it really sets the interstitial cystitis symptoms going. I'd be up all night in pain. And oh, how I miss that cold beer in the summer and the champagne cocktail at brunch. Secret of a good champagne cocktail is brown sugar instead of white. |
TZ: Just out of curiosity, have you tried DMSO for your IC? They still do that, don't they? I'm a DMSO fan and have recently been playing around with getting the maximum bang for my buck in testosterone replacement therapy. The 2% gell is ridiculously expensive ($450/mo). What I have found is that if I dilute the gel with 50% DMSO I can extend the stuff by about 5x. Instead of applying 2.5ml of the gel I apply 1ml of the DMSO mixture. Since the DMSO is so much more effective a delivery system than the activated alcohol in the gel by itself, I can get the same dose to my system using 1/5 the gell packet. I get monthly tests and have convinced my primary care guy to double the gel concentration to 4% (which costs the same) so I end up getting 10x the dosing capability with the same amount of product. $45/mo is a hell of a lot cheaper than the $450 I'd be paying by doing this the FDA approved way 
Moss |
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tzatke
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 26
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| Posted: October 03 2009 Post subject: |
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| Again, thank you for thinking of me. When I was dx with interstitial cystitis thirty years ago the only available treatments were DMSO instillations and Elmiron pills (available by compassionate use.) I had the DMSO institllations and got much, much worse. I spoke to Dr. Jacobs, who pioneered DMSO, and he told me to stop ASAP.I would have anyway. I got the Elmiron from Italy as it was much cheaper than getting it from compassionate use. I worked with a doctor in Sweden and a doc at Mass General and used a TENS device to retrain my bladder. No one else in the world has done this. Docs don't want to bother. Then a brilliant doctor at New England Medical Center who's spent his life researching the mast cell, gave me Atarax, a med so old there's no information on it. He also developed an OTC that I take. That and the gabapentin (highly effective for neuropathic pain) and the diazepam were lifesavers. Now that the Elmiron is FDA approved, I no longer need it.I saw thirty six docs before I got a dx. And I found the doctor who did dx me by spending six months reading at the Harvard Medical Library. I had no medical background then but I do now. I spent two years editing a text on IBD and wrote copy for the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation for ten years. I also have Crohn's disease and Sjogren's syndrome. |
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mosspa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 489
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| Posted: October 03 2009 Post subject: |
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| tzatke wrote: | | Again, thank you for thinking of me. When I was dx with interstitial cystitis thirty years ago the only available treatments were DMSO instillations and Elmiron pills (available by compassionate use.) I had the DMSO institllations and got much, much worse. I spoke to Dr. Jacobs, who pioneered DMSO, and he told me to stop ASAP.I would have anyway. I got the Elmiron from Italy as it was much cheaper than getting it from compassionate use. I worked with a doctor in Sweden and a doc at Mass General and used a TENS device to retrain my bladder. No one else in the world has done this. Docs don't want to bother. Then a brilliant doctor at New England Medical Center who's spent his life researching the mast cell, gave me Atarax, a med so old there's no information on it. He also developed an OTC that I take. That and the gabapentin (highly effective for neuropathic pain) and the diazepam were lifesavers. Now that the Elmiron is FDA approved, I no longer need it.I saw thirty six docs before I got a dx. And I found the doctor who did dx me by spending six months reading at the Harvard Medical Library. I had no medical background then but I do now. I spent two years editing a text on IBD and wrote copy for the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation for ten years. I also have Crohn's disease and Sjogren's syndrome. |
This is just another shot in the dark but have you tried low dose naltrexone therapy (LNT)? There is a ton of evidence emerging that it may be the magic bullet for autoimmune diseases. One of the pharmacists I used to work with (back several years when I found this group), has severe Crohn's. Unfortunately he was also pretty much addicted to Vicodin so LNT wouldn't work (because he was always under severe opiate load). I helped get him off the hydrocodone for about a month, sent him to my primary guy and got him set up on LNT. After about a month he was totally free from Crohn's symptoms. The mechanism of action makes a lot of sense. Do some research, I think you will be amazed at what can be accomplished with LNT and most autoimmune diseases. I've even seen some reports of successful treatment of ALS using LNT.
Moss |
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tzatke
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 26
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| Posted: October 03 2009 Post subject: |
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Really interesting because I did read about LDN for CFS. The two docs I spoke to about it didn't know anything about it. One wouldn't try it; I don't blame him, he doesn't do internal medicine. The other one said I should send her the research. I doubt she'll prescribe it because their really is no good research. My Crohn's is in remission and I only take Vicodin on rare occasions when my fibro flares. If you can find a decent study I'd really appreciate it. It seems like something that's being used in the west coast and hasn't traveled cross country to Boston yet. The Crohn's & Colitis Foundation has a very good website: CCFA.org
That is sad about your friend; Crohn's can be a really tough disease. I was critically ill initially and then two years later went into a seemingly miraculous remission. It's stayed self contained for almost forty years and although I have an occasional flare I've done very well with it. I had an MRI this summer and it's in one very small area and hasn't moved up into the small intestine. |
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mosspa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 489
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| Posted: October 03 2009 Post subject: |
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| tzatke wrote: | | Really interesting because I did read about LDN for CFS. The two docs I spoke to about it didn't know anything about it. One wouldn't try it; I don't blame him, he doesn't do internal medicine. The other one said I should send her the research. I doubt she'll prescribe it because their really is no good research. My Crohn's is in remission and I only take Vicodin on rare occasions when my fibro flares. If you can find a decent study I'd really appreciate it. It seems like something that's being used in the west coast and hasn't traveled cross country to Boston yet. The Crohn's & Colitis Foundation has a very good website: CCFA.org |
Try this one:
Am J Gastroenterol. 2007 Apr;102(4):820-8. Epub 2007 Jan 11.
Low-dose naltrexone therapy improves active Crohn's disease.
Smith JP, Stock H, Bingaman S, Mauger D, Rogosnitzky M, Zagon IS.
Department of Medicine, Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey, Pennsylvania 17033, USA.
OBJECTIVES: Endogenous opioids and opioid antagonists have been shown to play a role in healing and repair of tissues. In an open-labeled pilot prospective trial, the safety and efficacy of low-dose naltrexone (LDN), an opioid antagonist, were tested in patients with active Crohn's disease. METHODS: Eligible subjects with histologically and endoscopically confirmed active Crohn's disease activity index (CDAI) score of 220-450 were enrolled in a study using 4.5 mg naltrexone/day. Infliximab was not allowed for a minimum of 8 wk prior to study initiation. Other therapy for Crohn's disease that was at a stable dose for 4 wk prior to enrollment was continued at the same doses. Patients completed the inflammatory bowel disease questionnaire (IBDQ) and the short-form (SF-36) quality of life surveys and CDAI scores were assessed pretreatment, every 4 wk on therapy and 4 wk after completion of the study drug. Drug was administered by mouth each evening for a 12-wk period. RESULTS: Seventeen patients with a mean CDAI score of 356 +/- 27 were enrolled. CDAI scores decreased significantly (P= 0.01) with LDN, and remained lower than baseline 4 wk after completing therapy. Eighty-nine percent of patients exhibited a response to therapy and 67% achieved a remission (P < 0.001). Improvement was recorded in both quality of life surveys with LDN compared with baseline. No laboratory abnormalities were noted. The most common side effect was sleep disturbances, occurring in seven patients. CONCLUSIONS: LDN therapy appears effective and safe in subjects with active Crohn's.
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You're right, there isn't a lot of formal clinical research. The majority of the research out there is in specifying the mechanisms of LDN. A PubMed search of the term 'Low Dose Naltrexone' returned 361 hits! Clinical studies are expensive. There is no profit motive for anybody associated with LDN. Because nobody stands to make a buck on this, little clinical research will be conducted. This is the filthy little secret of how medical research is funded in this country. There are a lot of things that are amazing in their curative properties for many ailments and disease that go without definitive clinical studies because nobody can afford to conduct them. This is one place that government funding could really do some research good, but restrictions and roadblocks imposed by the FDA (motivated by their less than Godlike relationships with Big Pharma) basically prevent this. If people want real health care reform it should begin with cleaning out the FDA.
Anyway, here is another paper. It is a review and hypothesis-based. It was co-authored by my PhD academic advisor and it should provide you with any reference you may need. He's a great writer so it is more than likely entertaining as well.
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Med Hypotheses. 2009 Mar;72(3):333-7. Epub 2008 Nov 28.
Low-dose naltrexone for disease prevention and quality of life.
Brown N, Panksepp J.
Department of Humanities and Social Sciences, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, FL 32114, United States. NPHbrown@aol.com
The use of low-dose naltrexone (LDN) for the treatment and prophylaxis of various bodily disorders is discussed. Accumulating evidence suggests that LDN can promote health supporting immune-modulation which may reduce various oncogenic and inflammatory autoimmune processes. Since LDN can upregulate endogenous opioid activity, it may also have a role in promoting stress resilience, exercise, social bonding, and emotional well-being, as well as amelioration of psychiatric problems such a autism and depression. It is proposed that LDN can be used effectively as a buffer for a large variety of bodily and mental ailments through its ability to beneficially modulate both the immune system and the brain neurochemistries that regulate positive affect.
Enjoy,
Moss |
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roger
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 54
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| Posted: October 21 2009 Post subject: |
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safe to say i won't be using this product again. i couldn't fall asleep last night, so i took only one teaspoon, instead of the recommended two, and i am loopy like crazy, all blurry eyed/feel like a need a full on sleep today. The 'out of it' feeling is way more intense than if i did not take anything at all.
i definitely am overly sensitive to this.
note that it did put me to sleep though... |
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beardiedawg
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 91
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| Posted: October 22 2009 Post subject: |
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| Shansd, I got my sample in the mail today. If you still didn't receive yours, I think you may need to call them since I had ordered after you. |
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beardiedawg
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 91
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| Posted: October 23 2009 Post subject: |
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Took the forcesleep last night. Normally I take an ambien cr cut in half. (I needed help falling asleep and it was cheaper than name brand ambien.) I would take half then take the second half about half an hour later. Half an hour after that I would go to sleep and would have variable luck falling asleep quickly and staying asleep for long enough. Sometimes I would take a benadryl with that.
Last night I took two teaspoons forcesleep and wasn't really getting tired so I took half an ambien cr about 20 minutes after that. About half an hour after that, my eyes were tired and I was yawning. Can't remember the last time I yawned at night like that. I tried going to sleep and wasn't able to fall asleep after some length of time so I took the second half ambien cr. I didn't think I had slept well but maybe I slept better because this morning I had less of the dragging feeling then usual. I definitely didn't have any of the side effects some have felt with the forcesleep.
At this point, I'm not sure what to think. It wasn't negative but I'm not sure if it is worth the price. I've always been able to mix my medicine without feeling side effects but that probably isn't true for most people so I will probably try the same thing tonight. |
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DIZZYLAND
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 90
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| Posted: November 25 2009 Post subject: |
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I recieved another small bottle of Force Sleep without ordeing.
Hoping this was a mistake and I needn't dispute charges .
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Don't really trust just any service with my cc info... |
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shansd
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 283
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| Posted: November 25 2009 Post subject: |
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Dizzy, the same thing happened to me. Inside was a bill saying they had charged my credit card $50. There was a number to call if you wanted to return it, but the number had been disconnected. I immediately contacted my credit card and told them to put the charge in dispute.
I actually do want another bottle, but was so pissed off at this that my immediate response ws to cancel the charge.
Not sure what kind of scam they are running here but I was outraged.
I might just keep the bottle anyway regardless of disputing the charge since I spent a half hour out of my day dealing with this and at my hourly rate I am out of pocket.
How do you like this stuff?
How is your rotation plan working? |
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