REM Rebound Questions

[Debi]

I still don't understand exactly what REM Rebound is. How do you know you have it? On the Rem/Star Autopap software can you tell by the print out if you have it? People talk about it but I guess I just don't have a clue. I don't ever remember any dreams so maybe I don't even go into REM sleep. Any opinions/advice appreciated; I've only been at this for 3 months.

[-SWS]

Hi Debi---the RemStar Auto's overnight reports will only show sleep events that are based on breathing patterns (i.e. apneas, hypopneas, snores, flow limitations). So unlike a PSG study in the sleep lab (where they actually hook electrodes up to your brain) AutoPAPs cannot directly reveal when/if you experienced REM sleep.

Regarding your lack of dream recall or awareness (also called lack of dream mentation): this is likely not a big deal at all. My understanding is that a lack of dream mentation (with no other sleep-related symptoms/problems) is never treated! After all, this lack of dream mentation is quite common for an entire variety of reasons---especially as we grow older and our natural sleep patterns change.

So my suggestion is to not worry about a lack of dream recall unless you have yet other sleep-related symptoms or even daytime energy/somnolence issues. In that case mention all of your symptoms to your doctor, including that lack of dream mentation.

I would be very much interested in hearing other people's opinions and first-hand experience about this topic.

[ March 02, 2004: Message edited by: -SWS ]

[<Toth>]

REM rebound is an indication that the cpap treatment is effective, absence of REM rebound is interesting but not critical information.

I view REM rebound as more a 'curiosity' than a concern.

[<Sleepy>]

For years my dreams gradually diminished and then become quite rare for me. I didn't really think about it until asked as a part of my sleep study after I fell asleep at the wheel and had an accident 10/1/03. It dawned on me that while I had numerous dreams when I was younger, I couldn't remember having one in a long time. It seemed that I was more likely to have a dream during a day-time nap than at night.

I had a few soon after begining CPAP 12/4/03, and felt wonderful on the days after dreaming nights, but that soon ended and my fatigue returned. For several weeks, if I had any dreams, they were interrupted, truncated snippits.

After having my pressure increased from 8 cm to 14 cm and getting a heated humidifier 2 weeks ago, I suddenly began having many long, vivid dreams with long, involved story lines and scenes in vivid color each night for several nights. Now I seem to be settling into a pattern of having fewer dreams that are a little blurrier, but I still wake feeling fairly rested.

While I feel my energy levels are not quite what they should be yet, I am no longer terrified of nodding off during my drives to work. Bloating is interrupting my sleep to a degree, but not as much as the sleep apnea. I also still tend to start dreaming very quickly during day-time naps.

[Chief50]

Debi,
A persons body needs x amount of REM sleep each night. REM rebound is when your body starts making up all the REM sleep it didn't get due lack of sleep, lack of adequate sleep, medication side effects, etc. Many experts believe the body builds up a sleep debt". This is different than what people were told years ago. Each person will experience REM rebound unique to their situation, which includes, but is not limited to how much sleep debt a body has built up over days, weeks, months and years.
REM rebound can cause vivid dreams, nightmares, groggy diconnected feeling upon waking in morning, and occasionally morning headaches.
REM rebound can last anywhere from a few days to year and even in some instances longer. It all depends on how much REM sleep a person has to "repay".

[Cathylalabelle]

OK all, Here is another take on the REM sleep----remembering dreams thing. During my first sleep study, I had 34% REM sleep (I am 45 yr old). I would have to dig up my titration study from a pile of papers to tell you the percentage from that one. I remember dreaming a lot from my younger years, but rarely remember my dreams now. I don't worry about it. Both studies showed REM sleep. Apparently not everyone remembers their dreams. I don't stress myself worrying about this one.
Cathy

[DeJaVu-alloveragain]

REM rebound can cause vivid dreams, nightmares, groggy diconnected feeling upon waking in morning, and occasionally morning headaches.

Interesting - I have very vivid dreams (though no nightmares). I am groggy in the morning, feeling like I didn't really get enough sleep until I am fully awake - then I feel good. I also have just a faint hint of a headache in the mornings. Hardly notice it but it is different than before.

Also interesting is that when I mentioned these very slight headaches to my sleep doc the other day - he had no explanation. You'd think he'd be up on this stuff.

DJV

[ March 03, 2004: Message edited by: DeJaVu-alloveragain ]

[Rachel E]

I find this all interesting as that is basically what I am experiencing. I have been treated for almost a year but since day one have dealt with aerophagia, so I am thinking that now on a lower pressure for the past week, I have really "just begun" to be effectively treated for both apnea and arousal/awakenings.
The dreams can get pretty weird ...and graphic and I usually feel a bit better by afternoon.
Hmmmmmm
Rae

[-SWS]

I'm not sure, but I think it's possible for some patients to have plenty of REM sleep, yet poor dream mentation at the same time. If so, then that patient could theoretically be experiencing prolific REM rebound, and be unaware of this REM rebound for lack of dream mentation or awareness.

[<Sleepy>]

No REM was detected in either of my sleep studies.

[Rachel E]

Mine either
Rae

[-SWS]

quote:

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Originally posted by <Sleepy>:
No REM was detected in either of my sleep studies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rachel E:
Mine either
Rae

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My understanding is that as we grow older, many of us experience either less or even no REM sleep at all. If we are at that point in our lives before starting CPAP, then we likely won't experience REM rebound. Not to confuse this scenario for one in which sleep apnea itself deprives us of REM that we would otherwise have experienced. In that first scenario REM rebound is probably not going to happen. In that second scenario REM rebound sounds much more likely.

[Debi]

I told my sleep doc that if I had dreams I never remembered them. He said that remembering dreams or not doesn't infer that you are/are not into REM sleep. He said in order to remember dreams you have to awaken for some reason or other right after you have the dream.

[<ridley>]

That's why I usually remember dreams in the morning.

[<Sleepy>]

I thought it was stage IV sleep we got less of as we age, not REM. By the way, I'm 51. I'm quite certain that I was not having dreams often before and have them every night now.