Dreams

[Paul B]

This is just the opposite for me. Since I started Auto CPAP, I have begun to dream. They are very vivid and I seem to be more able to remember them. As I understand it, dreaming only occurs in REM sleep, and I was rarely if ever reaching REM sleep before CPAP.

[rested gal]

TimJ, I wouldn't be surprised if you are still dreaming - just not having your sleep disturbed while you're in REM - so, you are not waking up with apneas in the middle of REM. Without waking up in the midst of a dream, you're not apt to remember it.

You say you're feeling less tired. All in all, it sounds to me (I'm not a doctor) like you're doing well. I don't think it's a good sign to "remember" dreams, other than perhaps the last one of the morning as you wake up. Perhaps you're really having nice peaceful, undisturbed REM chockfull of dreams now. Just my opinion - worth about 2 cents.

[gkudasz]

I have the very vivid dreams too since going on CPAP 2 weeks ago. No REM during sleep study at all.

Get your study and see what they have you down for sleep stages.

I'm thinking (hoping) that I have a REM deficit I'm paying back. These dreams feel pretty real

[dareman]

I'm a CPAP veteran and my dreams are just about as vivid as they come. I can easily remember most of my dreams the next morning. And none of them are in the nightmare category.

[<needanap>]

Dreams always intrigue me. On good nights with CPAP, I often have trouble recalling dreams. Before CPAP, I felt that I would dream all night long (not good dreams either) and thought waking up exhausted was a result of all the stress and activity in the dreams. Now I believe I was just waking so often in the middle of a REM cycle that I remembered the dreams vividly. And of course, I know now the reason for the exhaustion. I think rested gal is right...whether we believe we dream more or dream less with xpap most likely depends upon how/when the apnea most affected our sleep cycle.

[<needanap>]

I am curious to know if waking to an alarm clock has any affect on remembering dreams well. On days I awaken to an alarm clock, I am more likely to remember a dream than on days that I awaken more naturally. For those of you who dream vividly and remember, do you see any connection? Dareman: do you remember dreams better since CPAP, or were you always able to recall your dreams?

[-SWS]

Forgetting all about sleep disorders for just a second...

Some people can normally remember their dreams while others cannot. Assuming there are people without sleep disorders in either category: why do some recall dreams while others do not? Or is the better assumption that one of these two categories is comprised perhaps exclusively of people with sleep disorders?

We know that dreams are often impacted by apnea in at least some patients. Based on your thoughts about dreams in the general population, do you think dreaming can in any way serve as a guage of either: 1) the severity of our sleep disorder, or 2) the efficacy of our treatment?

[ November 24, 2004: Message edited by: -SWS ]

[-SWS]

Tim, my experience with dreams:

1) Occasional vague recollection of dreams early in life,

2) Absolutely no perception of dreams for years prior to CPAP,

3) For more than a year after CPAP, apparent REM rebound with way too many dreams (that were also way too vivid---mostly pleasant) to feel rested in the morning,

4) After more than a year on CPAP, a return to experiencing dreams exactly as described in number one above.

[ November 24, 2004: Message edited by: -SWS ]

[rested gal]

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On days I awaken to an alarm clock, I am more likely to remember a dream than on days that I awaken more naturally.

needanap, I've found that to be the case also...now, as well as before I got on cpap. REM periods become longer as morning approaches, so an alarm clock jolting us into abrupt morning wakefulness is often likely to coincide with our being in the midst of a dream.

[dareman]

My dreams became more vivid when I started using an autopap (Resmed Spirit) believe it or not. I think that can be attributed to sleeping better, but I'm not a sleep expert so I just don't know. A couple of times, much to my surprise, I've been able to continue a dream after I awoke from it. I would think this impossible, but it did happen. Strange, eh?

[timarland]

I have read many times here on the board that OSA episodes keep people from dreaming. I have always had dreams, including the recent months when I've been diagnosed with severe OSA (O2 down to 59%). Now that I'm on the BiPAP, I seem to be getting some of the benefits - less tired, etc - but I don't dream anymore. During the nights that I don't use the BiPap, I dream. I suppose this isn't a huge a problem, but I am curious to hear other people's experiences and opinions on this.

Thanks

[rested gal]

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SWS writes: Assuming there are people without sleep disorders in either category: why do some recall dreams while others do not? Or is the better assumption that one of these two categories is comprised perhaps exclusively of people with sleep disorders?

Interesting question. Given the number of outside influences that could disturb the last REM of the morning for either group, I don't know if the "rememberers" vs the "non-rememberers" could be categorized very well. needanap's alarm clock, for example. Dog barking? Neighbor slamming a door or starting a car? Morning noises of the bed partner getting up earlier? Side of the house a bedroom is on getting earlier or later morning light? So many outside influences that could affect either population (SDB or non-SDB). So many things that could wake either set during the last REM of the morning - or not.

There also might be skewing either way within the SDB population itself, but I wonder which way the skew might lean: OSA so severe they rarely get into REM at all (don't have dreams) vs OSA sufferers who do get into REM but are suddenly awakened fully by an apnea during a dream (do have dreams and do remember them.) And maybe even a third group within the SDB's - have REM, do dream, and have apneas during REM...disturbing their sleep, but not waking them enough to allow recollection of having dreamed at all during the night.

Very intriguing thoughts, SWS.

[rested gal]

SWS, the "1, 2 and 4" you described above is exactly the way I'd describe my experience with dreaming. From teenage years on (and before cpap) if someone asked me, "Do you dream?" I'd have answered, "Almost never, or at least I don't remember them."

Considerably shortened for me was the "3" you describe:

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3) For more than a year after CPAP, apparent REM rebound with way too many dreams (that were also way too vivid---mostly pleasant) to feel rested in the morning,

I still attribute my suddenly increased dreaming (or recollection of vivid dreams) once I started cpap, mainly to the whole ball of wax of adjusting to such a different way of sleeping. Awakening more fully during a dream - awakening due to mask issues, mouth leaks, etc. Some months into it, I also went back to "1" - vague recollection of some dreams, but sometimes remembered in considerably more detail if I wake up during a final dream of the morning. REM rebound subsiding? Or just getting more settled with the equipment...dunno.

[ November 25, 2004: Message edited by: rested gal ]

[<needanap>]

Interesting thoughts. It also amazes me that with dreams being such a universal phenomenon, we have many theories but still do not fully understand the why and wherefore of dreaming. If you have ever watched other animals sleep, it is also obvious that dreaming is not only a human phenomenon. I do believe I am more rested after nights when I do not recall vivid dreams, but sometimes I wonder what I am missing by not remembering. There have been occasions where amateur analysis of a particularly vivid dream gave me insight into an issue.

As dareman mentioned, I have also experienced returning to a dream after semi-awakening. In fact, frequently I will find myself hitting the snooze button in order to finish what I was doing in a dream, e.g. I frequently find myself at work in my dreams, and when the alarm sounds, I think I have to finish what I am doing before I can fully awaken. (In fact, one morning I was dreaming that I had worked all night and was unbelievably exhausted. Just when I finally got to climb into bed in my dream—my alarm clock sounded. Bad timing! Oh well…

[-SWS]

Dareman, Needanap: dreams are not exclusive to REM, but tend to happen much more during REM than any other sleep cycle. Believe it or not, it is possible to experience both dreams and REM brain wave activity while awake! This is most pronounced in Narcoleptics who slip into REM before falling asleep. With that said, you are probably not narcoleptic. I too have continued dreaming after waking---either in the middle of the night after an urgent call to use the restroom, or even after the alarm clock goes off in the morning.

Rested Gal: I think you've neatly surmised the "dreamers" versus "non-dreamers"! I agree that there are likely plenty of factors contributing to members of both dream categories. While we can anecdotally notice differences in how well we dream, the dreaming experience---among apneics and non-apneics---is much too variable to serve as an accurate "efficacy guage" of SDB treatment.

While dreaming seems to adequately serve as a vague quality-of-sleep indicator for some of us, I don't think other patients should be discouraged simply because they cannot recall dreams.

[ November 25, 2004: Message edited by: -SWS ]